Turn the Paige Podcast

43: Friendship in the Trenches (ft Michele Monastra)

• Tajuana Paige & Sheree Paige-Barber • Episode 43

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Remember when you thought your childhood best friends would be at your wedding, baby shower, and every birthday party? Then life happened. Distance grew. Schedules filled. And somehow friendships that once seemed permanent began to shift.

In this deeply authentic conversation, hosts Tajuana and Sheree welcome back guest Michele to explore the evolution of friendship through life's different seasons. They dive into the bittersweet reality of watching childhood friendships transform as we grow older, move away, and enter new life phases. As Michele poignantly observes, "When you're little, you don't account for life... it's like they maybe won't be able to come to your baby shower or they're not always gonna live five minutes up the street."

The conversation takes a powerful turn when discussing motherhood's impact on friendships. The hosts share how no becoming parents creates an intense bonding experience with other mothers—what Michele describes as similar to "quarantine relationships" where connections form rapidly through shared struggles. They also reflect on the heart-wrenching experience of watching their children navigate friendships, feeling every rejection and celebration alongside them.

What emerges is a beautiful portrait of friendship's transformative nature. Some relationships naturally fade while others deepen through shared experiences. New friendships form in unexpected places, especially within communities built around specific challenges like parenting children with disabilities or NICU experiences. As Tajuana notes, these connections become essential: "When you have people that just have this unspoken understanding... it's so comforting because motherhood is very lonely."

Whether you're grieving changed friendships, celebrating your ride-or-dies, or seeking your community, this episode reminds us that meaningful connection is possible in every season of life. Subscribe now and join the conversation about friendship in the trenches!

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Speaker 1:

Welcome to Turn the Page.

Speaker 2:

Podcast Sisters best friends and brunch enthusiasts.

Speaker 1:

With relatable episodes that feel like you're chatting with two of your closest friends or sisters. Join us as we turn the page to different topics about losing yourself in motherhood, adulthood, anyhood.

Speaker 2:

And finding yourself again through meaningful friendships. Shameless piles of unread library books and endless Amazon package deliveries Real, honest and a little bit chaotic we talk about it all.

Speaker 1:

So grab your favorite drink, put the kids to bed, lace up your sneaks or whatever you need to do, and join us. We can't wait to connect with you.

Speaker 3:

Can't wait to connect with you. Hi guys, Welcome to Turn the Page podcast.

Speaker 2:

I am your co-host Tawana Page. I'm your other co-host, cherie Page-Farber.

Speaker 3:

And we have a return guest, michelle. Remind me again, monastra, monastra, thank you, I'm so horrible with names.

Speaker 2:

I'm so sorry. Monastra, monastra.

Speaker 3:

Thank you, I'm so horrible with names. I'm so sorry.

Speaker 4:

It's okay. I can't tell you how many different versions of that I get on a daily basis.

Speaker 3:

Oh, I understand, that was my first name. People call me Paige because they just give up. I'm like that's actually not my name, yes, all the time, but Cherie will tell you. You, like, it's nothing personal, I didn't butcher words, I butcher names. Yeah, like, yeah, I just love you and you literally just told me, but I forgot. Yeah, listen, it's been a long week. Yes, it has, but, michelle, I wanted to give you an update. Since the last time we spoke, sheree and I have gotten new tattoos.

Speaker 3:

Since the last time I did forget to tell you that yes, yeah, so I got two hearts on my arm for the boys oh I got sheree, I have to tell you a semicolon on the back of my neck because it's the mental health, one of the mental health symbols or signs, and mommy goes let me see your tattoos. So I showed her in the car. She goes is that a question mark? I said no, it's a semicolon.

Speaker 2:

You mean like this yes, you have one too. Yes I do I have one also on the back of my neck.

Speaker 3:

Ever since I saw natalie portman has attached in the back of her neck, I just like fell in love. I'm in love with her. But like I fell in love with that tattoo and I've been like wanting it for years and I finally did and it took two seconds yes, those are the best yeah, loved ones are terrible oh yeah, what are your? What's your tattoo?

Speaker 2:

oh right, um, so it's a north star I'm just gonna say it's a north star. That's so pretty thank you because the lady at the place, like she, kept calling it a sparkle I was like I don't know why she keeps calling it it's not a sparkle um, but there's 12 dots because it's supposed to. This one's from my dad and that's like his number, his like sports and favorite number, so now I have one for everybody.

Speaker 3:

Yes oh yeah. Well, that was a little sidebar, but that's just what we do so michelle, thank you for coming back.

Speaker 4:

Thank you for having me back on a friday for all three moms.

Speaker 3:

I'm not really sure how we did this, but we did it. The stars aligned yeah they did, and next time we're in Jersey we have to let you know ahead of time so that we can plan ahead of time instead of like today we're there. Hey girl, you're like um at a birthday party, can't? So? You know next time we're there, I appreciate that. Thanks Because I know last time we were there, you were like you were in new jersey and you didn't tell me.

Speaker 4:

I was like, oh, my bad girl casual ig stories and I'm like, oh, you're in new jersey yeah, you're like wait a second.

Speaker 3:

It's just so hard to remember all the things, so many things now but we going to do a this or that, and then we're going to Would you rather? Oh my bad.

Speaker 2:

Just like.

Speaker 3:

Okay, but also let's share the news Someone just had a birthday.

Speaker 2:

Oh, yes, I did. I, just I did. It was Wednesday we're discussing this. Yes, I did turn 31. Oh, Wednesday, you turned 31.

Speaker 3:

We were discussing this. Yes, I did turn 31.

Speaker 4:

My little baby's growing up. Yes, Is this a show? It's just I remember getting older, so I'm almost 40.

Speaker 3:

Girl we're the same age, I'm pretty sure. What year are you?

Speaker 4:

86.

Speaker 3:

Girl, me too. When's your birthday?

Speaker 4:

April 18th.

Speaker 3:

Okay, you're six months older than me. I'm October. Oh man Girl it's Sorry, Michelle. It's getting there. I mean it's okay, we are the mature millennials. We have a friend who is well Cherie's from it. She's my friend through Cherie. She's 1988. And for Cherie's bachelorette party we were the oldest, we were the only people born in the 1980s that were in attendance. So we were like the moms. But it was so fun because we like knew everybody. But we kept saying like we're the mature millennials.

Speaker 3:

Because, millennials starts in like 81, I think I was like we're the mature, because I kept saying like oh, we're the elders. She goes no, no, no, we're the mature millennials.

Speaker 4:

We are, we are, but it's like I don't know what it is. The older I get, the more that I kind of realize that it's really a privilege to get older.

Speaker 3:

I like that. That's a good segue into what we're talking about, Like. I feel like it'll show up into the topics that we're talking about, which is great.

Speaker 4:

Yeah, it's like I mean, getting older is kind of it's very sobering. It's like, okay, I'm getting older, I might have like one more or two more gray hairs, it's like 10, but it's such, it's such an honor to get older and be able to reflect on where you were 10 years ago to where you are now, of course, and it's like it's just incredible, like I mean just growing up and maturing and it's not linear, it's just it kind of is what it is and you really you have to embrace that and I just, you know, I remember being 25 and I couldn't, I couldn't imagine doing the things that I'm doing now, like being a mom.

Speaker 3:

I remember, like at 18, I was like I thought 30 was like 80. Like I thought it was so old and I was I'm going to have my like. You have to have your life together by 30. I am 38. Yes, 38, 38 and a half, and I'm like I literally don't have my life anywhere near together. I can only tell my 18-year-old self that this is what you have to look forward to, yeah.

Speaker 4:

Yeah, but you have a little bit more together than I'm sure you did at 18. Oh, 1,000% yeah 100%.

Speaker 3:

But when I was 18, you guys can attest when you're 18, you think 30 is like so far away, which it is. It's like 12 years, but like 12 years isn't that long.

Speaker 2:

Like the older you get you're like oh, 12 years ago I was this age, but it's just like you just think that 30 is so old and it's like you made it I think that's what I'm realizing as I get older too is just like how fast time flies, like this year is all hiking our parents would talk about, like how fast time is.

Speaker 3:

I'm like, oh, you know, blah, blah, blah. But now I'm like like that quote that you sent me, sure? It's like how are we already five months into a year that started two weeks ago? Yeah, like it's already the end of May.

Speaker 2:

I think it's like seeing something that, like you saw start from scratch. You know what I mean, like a kid like that definitely puts time in perspective. It just makes you realize like it doesn't seem like much time has passed, and then you look at them and they're five inches taller and it's like oh yeah, it's been years.

Speaker 3:

It's crazy. Now we know, because our dad always talks about like how quickly he grew up and he like, literally he has like the best memory of like when we were younger and like when he was younger too, and it's just like he. I'm like oh time flies. He was like who are you telling? He's like I remember when you guys were like this age and that age, and now he's a grandpa. It's just like, it's wild and it's what you were saying, michelle.

Speaker 3:

It's like very sobering, like to just watch your kids grow up and you're like, wow, this is how our parents felt, like my kids are going to be.

Speaker 3:

My youngest is going to be three and two weeks I literally feel like I just drove to the hospital on his birthday and was prepared to get cut open and have him yeah yep yep mine yeah, my oldest is going to be in two months and I feel like I just drove to the hospital that day as well, because I had my water broke and I didn't know it and I was bleeding and I was like that was six years ago, almost six years ago it's crazy, it's so crazy and I think you know seeing life through their eyes is really like oh, it's wild, it's incredible and it's just like it's.

Speaker 4:

It's the coolest thing. I can't I can't put a proper spin on it, but it's just.

Speaker 3:

You know, you're watching them learn something new every day and yeah, oh, it's so fascinating and everything is like like I'm very sarcastic, but I forget that kids are so literal and like I used to be like oh, I'm going to, like I went to the moon, like I'm kidding, my oldest was like I don't want you to go to the moon. I was like what are you talking about?

Speaker 2:

but like to him it's like real and I'm like oh right yes it's just, it's crazy this was a great intro um you're way off topic.

Speaker 3:

No, I love it. No, it's not. I don't think I think it ties on. It's not? I don't think I think it ties in.

Speaker 2:

It's very on brand. I'm going to just shift us back to the. Would you rather real quick? Me too, okay. Would you rather lose your sight or your memories?

Speaker 3:

Oh, I would say like, because I feel like memory, like I don't know, like all to. The older I get, the more I like cling on to memories and like remember things and I'm like I wish it could go back to like this time and like I remember certain memories like so vividly, so I feel like sight.

Speaker 4:

I, I, I feel like memory because, okay, you can create new memories with sight that's a good point oh yeah, that's where. That's where I'm at no, that's fair reason.

Speaker 2:

I know, I don't know. I think I don't know, I think sight, I'm just gonna go with my gut and say sight, I don't have an explanation. That was a hard one. Okay, wait, all right, would?

Speaker 3:

you rather be chronically underdressed or overdressed? For sure underdressed, because, well, I've been really like doing up my wardrobe lately. I've been like caring more about what I look like now when I go to work. But there's nothing more comforting than coming home and whipping off that bra and getting into my pajamas.

Speaker 4:

And.

Speaker 3:

I will say I went to the grocery store last Sunday with my oldest to go like a little bit of grocery shopping and I literally only wore shorts and a shirt and shoes, like nothing underneath, because I just did not care. Yeah, just didn't care I was like I'm not putting underwear on for this.

Speaker 4:

I can't, I can't listen, sometimes you just gotta let it let it go.

Speaker 3:

I feel like I'm chronically underdressed, because I feel like I have those days and I just don't care.

Speaker 2:

Oh, that's fair.

Speaker 3:

I'm getting better.

Speaker 4:

I think probably underdressed. I don't love clothes. Yeah, I don't like. I just find them too restricting.

Speaker 3:

so they are, and I feel like for me, if I'm overdressed, I feel like I'm snooty, Like I'm the snooty one in the room, Like I didn't get the memo.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I'm going to pick underdressed too, too, just because I'd rather be comfortable than like presentable. Um, all right, last one. This is interesting as an a mom parent, would you rather oversleep every day for a week or not get any sleep at all for four days?

Speaker 3:

oh, you're gonna have to say not get sleep for four days because I've been there, yeah yeah multiple times I think oversleeping I would wake up in panic because I've missed all the things I need to do and like I would just start off the morning anxious, because oversleeping for me could be like 7 or 7, 3030. And we know this as moms and I'm like my child. My children are already asking to eat and I'm like I'm usually like up at 6 or whatever, wake up at 6. Give me like an hour to like decompress. If I wake up at 7.30, they're wanting breakfast, like now. I'm like I have to get myself together.

Speaker 2:

No, like who knows what they've gotten into.

Speaker 3:

Right, that too, because I feel like that's been for four days.

Speaker 2:

Mm-hmm.

Speaker 3:

Which is we've been there. It sucks, but we somehow miraculously bounced back.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, somehow Awful, yeah. Yeah, I think that felt pretty unanimous yeah.

Speaker 4:

I think yeah.

Speaker 2:

That's a good ending one. What's our topic today?

Speaker 3:

Our topic today is friendship in the trenches and just friendships in different seasons of our lives.

Speaker 2:

Did you guys have any friendships that changed from like before kids to after kids, friends that maybe you knew before you had kids? Like, did your friendships change For sure, what does that look like now? Because I feel like a lot of it is normalizing it, because, like it's- a tough adjustment.

Speaker 3:

Well, sure you know my core group of friends from home um.

Speaker 3:

I have my core group of friends. There's four of us, three girls and a guy um, and we were friends since like one since like fourth grade and then like eighth grade and maybe sixth grade, but like since we were like little and like we all live in different different countries, different cities. Now two out of the four have kids. I'm one of the two. Um, we still like, send each other like memes and dms on instagram and like we still text, but like we haven't seen each other in like actual years and sometimes like makes me sad because I'll get nostalgic when we go home.

Speaker 3:

I'm like, oh, we used to do this, but like I just text one of my best friend out of that group or they're all my best friends, but you know the one from fourth grade like a song from like when we were growing up and I don't know it just feels like that's changed and just like we'll text each other back like when we can and it just like doesn't feel the same. But I don't, not that I don't feel sad because I am sad because like time just naturally changes. But like I understand, like we got older and just things naturally shift and it just like takes more effort to stay in contact. But we're the type where, like, we can pick off what we left off and like nothing's changed. Yeah, but, um, but shannon, who we've known since, like before we were born, we have periods where we like aren't in contact, not because like anything wrong, it's just life.

Speaker 3:

But we actually saw her when we were in town and I had to give her a heads up because she's also a mom. But our dads have been best friends since first grade, so like our families know each other. But it's literally like no time has passed, like she still looks the same and it's just like our kids finally met and like we call her our cousin and that's we used to call each other, like when we were growing up.

Speaker 3:

She went to the same school, oh yeah um, yeah, that's what we used to call each other, like when we were growing up we went to the same schools, but um, yeah, that's. I mean, that's nothing, it has they have. It has changed. And it makes me sad sometimes because I'm like I remember life when we didn't have kids, or like when we weren't old and working nine to five. But and how I see people on Instagram like doing like friend reunions and stuff. Like I know it's Instagram, so it's like curated, but those are the times like I miss them too no, I get that yeah, yeah.

Speaker 4:

I think there's something to be said about those friendships, though, where you can just pick up and you know right back where you you started from and you know they've seen every version of you, yes, and they have continued to stay they're choosing to stay, yeah yeah, they're choosing to stay um, sometimes, you know, under their will, but um right, they just know too much.

Speaker 4:

You can't leave exactly it's just so you know they, they've watched you grow and grow up and the fact that you know I I still have a friend who we've been friends since first grade I love that yeah, we don't, you know, we don't talk every day, but anytime I, I you know, I'll have a thought about her and I'll text her and it's just like yep, we're still seven.

Speaker 4:

Yeah, yeah, you know, and we've, you know, we grew up together, we went to high school together, we went to college. Oh cool, we had kids around the same time and it's just love that it's. It's such a testament to what friendship can be. Yeah, that, you know you, you just you have to smile when you think about it.

Speaker 4:

And I've had reverse um friendships where we were so close yeah then you know you have kids and suddenly you don't fit in their lives anymore yeah yeah, and it's sad but it it's, you know it's. It's part of the growth process too yeah, no, I agree.

Speaker 2:

I think that it's interesting because I feel like I've collected friends from like very core age groups. I would say Like I have the friends that I grew up with like from scratch.

Speaker 2:

And then, like I have a friend that we kind of all like accumulated together as a core memory kind of. And then I've got my group from college and like from there we've all just kind of grown up together and even my college friends at this point we've known each other for Jesus 12 years, 13 years. That's insane. Used to feel not great about having like a small circle, but I'm realizing how much that means because of a lot of what you guys mentioned. Like they see you through everything, they follow with you through all the different milestones, like you see all their milestones.

Speaker 2:

yeah, it's just cool to kind of grow and stretch and be able to pivot and adjust with a group of people and know that they will be there kind of regardless, even though it might look different. So, yeah, it's a lot of texting, group chats, memes and, yeah, like facetime so we can yeah, well, and I I think about our friendship Like we met when you were 17.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, oh my God, it's been that long.

Speaker 4:

It's been that long, that's been 14 years. That's crazy. Yeah, I met Sheree when she was 17. And you know you were graduating high school.

Speaker 2:

Yes.

Speaker 4:

Oh my God. And like you know, in you were in the trenches, like I was in a different set of trenches dealing with all kinds of stuff. Yes, and then we lost touch and then it was like, I don't know, out of the blue you were having sage and I was like you know, hey, how are you? And then it just like we picked up where we left off.

Speaker 2:

I was like, oh my god wait, you also had a baby. You know how this like.

Speaker 4:

Please walk me through this yeah, so we just, you know I, we found each other at a certain point in our lives, um, and then we rediscovered each other like yeah, you know that's so beautiful.

Speaker 3:

I love that, yeah and then I've met like a few few of my friends. Now I met through sheree because, um, she's like, oh, I think you would like like my friend, and she's like, oh, I think you would like my sister, and I just think that's also like a testament like to us as sisters. It's like, oh, I think you would like my sister, and I just think that's also like a testament like to us as sisters. It's like we talk about each other, I talk about you to my friends Also, like vice versa, and like so far, your track record has been spot on. Like I love Michelle, like we send each other memes every single day and that's just our love language. And I can't imagine like not having ever met her. Like I feel like she's been my friend for like ever. Yeah, we relate on so many levels and it's like I just think that's a testament to like all of us too.

Speaker 3:

And also what you were saying about how your friends show up, but it looks different. It's like when you're younger. You like from first grade, michelle. It's's like I'm sure you guys imagine like doing everything together, like past the age of seven, and like having kids. It's like you would plan your kids and your wedding, but like not realizing that they maybe won't be there like the way that you thought they would be. Yeah, like I was in my best friend's wedding and like, um, I obviously wasn't there for the birth of her kids and she wasn't here for mine. Because it's like life it just happens like it doesn't happen like it does in the movies and it's like when you're little, like you don't account for life.

Speaker 3:

it's like oh wait, like they maybe won't be able to like, come to your baby shower or like they're not always gonna live five minutes up.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, yeah and it's like you can't wrap your head around that when you're younger because you just refuse to accept anything else, but like when you're older and you're starting to get older, like it's hard to accept. Or then you're like, oh, this is like how life is. It's like I feel like it's easier for us to keep in contact nowadays versus like when our parents are our age, because we have social media and like texting and like all that so I just feel like at least for me, I've like accepted that, like if I feel like all that sucks, like you see things on like the movies and tv.

Speaker 3:

It's like all your friends are at your wedding and like you know they come to your baby's birthday parties, and it's like sometimes your, your friends, maybe will not meet your kids until they're older, but it doesn't mean they don't know about them yeah, it's just like it's just wild, it's just I think it's humbling also but it just makes you realize that when you're younger, your mindset is so different because you don't know anything other than like what you have known for the past, like x amount of years, like you can't think past that in the sense of like you, where you think that it's that it's not going to be different one day.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I definitely think that, um, like meeting friends and motherhood or like reconnecting with friends and motherhood, like it speeds things up. You know how they say. Like you know like quarantine relationships where like everything was set up because you just it's like hyper focused, you're like in this little bubble. Motherhood kind of feels like that, because the friendships that like I was just talking with son about this this morning, I was like it feels like I've. We were saying it feels like we've known each other forever, but it's been maybe two and a half years, like just since our kids have been here. But because of the things that we talk about and go through and like connect a lot more often, just like, hey, how you like, are you still good over there? Like what's going on? It I don't know. I think it just like expedites the process. And that was one of my main things going into having sage. I was like I just want my, like I want a friend village, I want my community.

Speaker 2:

I was very scared of being isolated and not having people that I felt connected to and I. That I feel like, is something like I'm very proud of. I have a very, very lovely community of mom friends, and that's not something that I take for granted. It's very important.

Speaker 4:

Yeah, I think you develop, especially becoming a mom. You just develop these deeper connections with people. Yeah, because you've been through the same thing.

Speaker 3:

Yeah. And you also don't have time for bullshit anymore, so you're like, I don't have time for this anymore. So you're like, please, yeah, it's like I don't have time for this. If you don't understand that, like I can't come because I have kids, then obviously we're not going to be friends yeah I don't have. I literally have no time in my day to sit here and be sad about this yeah, and you know, like, have I used to get very upset?

Speaker 4:

Well, maybe I still do get a little upset, but, like you know friends that I have, like I have one friend in particular who carried me through like the darkest moments of my life and now we barely talk and you know I'll text her and I don't hear anything. Oh yeah, and I get, I got. You know, I used to get upset and I'm like, but my time is my time's worth it. Like I'm so busy. There are days like I don't eat, like I don't even remember to eat some days.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 4:

Yeah, oh wait, it's like five o'clock and I have. You know, I eat chips all day. Yeah, yeah, and it's like when I'm thinking about you. I want to let you know that I'm thinking about you because A you are important, my time is important and I'm making you a priority. Yeah, and if you can't make me a priority, then you know, our friendship has changed and it's evolved, and it wasn't where it it does.

Speaker 2:

I mean, I think it's so hard because, yes, been there, it's been there and like I also get upset about it still, because it's hard not to feel Flighted, yeah, or like just the one-sided dynamic that I think, just yeah, can be a little triggering and I think, man, I don't know, I think remembering that you just you don't always know what's going on has been really helpful for me. And like not taking things personally and kind of meeting your friends where they are, because if you've been friends with these people for years five, 10, 15, 20, like however many years like you're growing and you're changing, so it's like learning new friends, kind of, and like how to show up and engage with these people as you change too. So it's, it's a balancing act. I don't know it's interesting, but I think that it's worth. I think it's worth it. I can't imagine not having, like people that I check in with and just have that space outside of family. Yeah, um, yeah. So that is something that I not in a sexist way, but like I'm, kind I'm, I love being a girl because it feels like a lot more, like it's easier, maybe more natural for, like the female relationships, because like a lot of the relationships that I notice with males. It's like it's hard for them to go deep sometimes or maybe, like I don't know like the communication piece, maybe it just looks different than what I'm used to. I'm not saying they can't do it, they do it in their own way, different than what I'm used to. I'm not saying they can't do it, they do it in their own way.

Speaker 2:

But this video popped up for me on Facebook. That was like I had my husband call all his friends and say goodnight and it's going viral on TikTok. So he just calls his friend and he's like hey, what's up? He's like nothing, man. He's like, hey, we're just calling to say goodnight. He's like why, why? And it's just this montage of all these people recreating it. I'm like I've definitely texted people goodnight and it's like goodnight, love you. Like goodnight, love you too. Like why is that weird? So I just am very grateful that it is a natural thing for us. It doesn't feel like something you have to question or second guess or like you can't be yourself all the time and I don't know.

Speaker 3:

I feel like a lot of my male relationships are like based on, like joking, oh my gosh, yes, because that's how we connect, but, like my female friends, it's like we go deep yeah, but like I appreciate that, but it's just funny and then it's like I have you for joking and I have you for talking about like stuff that might be too tmi for the males yeah but, um, this is kind of tying into, like my next thing, but I have a crazy observation tree.

Speaker 3:

Tell me if I'm wrong but, I've noticed that you not seek out but like you're friends with people who are like around my age, and I don't know if that's because, like you're used to having me as like a sister. But on the other end, I am friends with people that are like in your age group, like I, like gravitate towards that, like at work, I have a lot of friends that are like in your age group or younger and I feel like it's just like a natural mentoring thing for me and I feel like I don't really connect with like older people not connect.

Speaker 3:

But I feel like I gravitate more towards like younger people, maybe because it's like I want to be young, keep my youth, but also probably because I'm like used to being like the oldest yeah, the older sister, like the older cousin, I don't know. I just like I have like more connections with them and like I learned from them. But I'm just like I just noticed that because Michelle and son are like in my age group.

Speaker 2:

I know. I mean, marina was too, I think. Yeah, that's um something that I've also noticed, and I think, partly because I've always been like I'm like an old soul, I feel like I've always been a little bit ahead of my time. So I connect with older people in general, like even yeah, quote the adults like we're all adults, right, but you know, the adults that were adults when we were kids, like I just have a way, I don't know, I feel comfortable with them and even like my Zumba. It's like, you know, like older ladies, but like I love it. I don't know why, but like I also connect really well with kids so I can shape, shift. It's the Gemini and me, I guess I feel like I can too.

Speaker 3:

I mean, I can not that I can be friends with anybody, because I absolutely cannot, but I can like talk to anybody and make it seem like I'm friends with you. That sounds really bad, coming off like that, but I just feel like I can, like I don't know, but like I love my work friends. A few are my age and a few are like a lot younger, like 1990s, and I'm like whoa, like you're freaking a baby and then I'm like oh yeah, like my sister's 1994, so like I forget that frequently.

Speaker 3:

But so I feel like maybe that's why I'm like I can connect with them easier, and also just because their cousins are younger than me, I'm just used to being the oldest in the room, fair and. I just didn't realize that until like now what have you noticed, michelle?

Speaker 2:

do you tend to gravitate towards group or personality type?

Speaker 4:

Um, I don't know. I think I tend to gravitate a little more towards like older people. Maybe Okay, like older than us yeah, but I also feel like I get along with everybody I can see that I just I, I don't know like I I will talk to anybody. I don't care how old you are or color, creed, whatever if you're a person, if you're breathing, I'm speaking to you yeah like I will.

Speaker 4:

I'm like that mom at the playground that, like I will talk to you and you'll probably, you know, like you know, walk away a little bit. You know, tiptoe, I have to go get my kids yeah, you don't have kids, you're just like, I'm just like I'll talk to anybody, um, and it's funny because, like now that my son's in school, um, and I'm watching him make friends yeah, it's wild, it is. It is pure love.

Speaker 2:

No, and they do?

Speaker 3:

They're obsessed with each other? Oh my gosh.

Speaker 2:

The hugs they love hugging.

Speaker 4:

They love hugging, it doesn't matter. The other day we were at the park and my son this was just like it was such a beautiful moment. He was an adult, he was in a wheelchair and my son was like fascinated and I said, why don't you go talk to him? And he walked up to this man who was so, so nice and, just like my son, was like how many wheels do you have? And he was just like I have two. Like you want to see them. And it was just like he wasn't afraid. There was nothing, like he didn't have any preconceived notions, he didn't have anything. Yeah, he just thought this guy's wheelchair was really cool, yeah, and that's like what he went with and like, how cool is that?

Speaker 4:

like, how you know, when you see that in your kids and you're like you know, I mean, I was a little bit like not fearful, but I was like how is he going to approach this? What is he going to do with this? And he did exactly what will does he just everybody and, like you know, wants to be friends with everybody. So, you know, I, it was just, it was a really pure and beautiful moment and it was just like you know, he didn't.

Speaker 3:

I love that he didn't see anything different like, which also makes me sad, because I'm like, wow, like we used to be like that. And then the world, you know, society, was just like, well, we're gonna change that for you. And just like, and like my oldest like literally will like tell me every little thing about his friends, like oh, so-and-so came in with the glasses today because he also has glasses. I'm like, oh, that's like, that's awesome. But it's like those little things they notice and like that they feel the need to tell you is just so like pure to me, and it's just like it's so fascinating and also kind of sad. It's like, okay, it's like what age should we lose that? And like, how come we can't just like get that back? And it's just like it makes me so sad when, like you hear about kids going through things that kids should not go through, or like see things they shouldn't see. Because once you lose that kid sense you do, you cannot get it back.

Speaker 2:

I mean even to the point where, like when I found out that RJ had to get glasses found out like he's my kid. But, like you know, my first thought is like no one better make fun of him, like. I swear to god if anybody makes fun of his glasses because you know how shitty kids can be auntie.

Speaker 3:

Riri was coming for them yeah but that was my first thought.

Speaker 3:

She was like, oh my gosh, I was hoping to make fun of him. I was like, oh gosh, but he has no problem wearing them. Like no one like he, everyone like loves it. But that was my first thought and it's because we know how shitty kids can be and we know that it's their parents and we know, I'm like kids are, are mean, they're so mean. And when I hear that like someone wouldn't let him play with something like at school, I'm just like, oh, really like that makes me like I have to like take a moment and like shift, because I'm like, as a mom, I'm like, oh, like, who's this kid? Let me go find him but also.

Speaker 3:

I'm like it's okay, buddy. Like buddy, we were at a play place one time and he, so brave, asked everyone that he saw to play with him and they said no. And I'm like, why the fuck did they say no Whatever, for whatever reason? And he was so sad and he was crying. He said I want to leave. No one's playing with me. He didn't want to play with his brother. And then the next time he went to a play place, he, I guess, forgot about that. He asked everybody or like just didn't let it bother him, and asked everybody again at a different play place and people told him, yes, he was so excited. And then I like told him that, like, that was so brave of him to like try again. And I was just like I wanted to make sure.

Speaker 3:

I like said that because I feel like as adults, the minute I get rejected, I'm like I'm never showing my face again, thank you. And it's like kids are so resilient and we went to the parks at one time. He was so excited that these two kids were like playing with him. It's like, wait a second, where are you going? Like you need to tell us where you're going. But he was just so stoked and I'm like I like sat there and watched him ask them to play and I was like watching his brother and also I was like, oh my god, please say yes. I was like I can't handle a no and they said yes. I was like, oh, like what'd they say? He's like, oh, they said yes, I'm like, oh, of course they did go play but like, what does that say about you as a mom?

Speaker 4:

because you trusted him enough to continue to ask do you want to play with me? And, yeah, rejected the first time and you didn't say to him like, oh, you shouldn't do that again, because you know people are just going to reject you.

Speaker 3:

You trusted him enough yeah you, you know, you, you see everything in your kid, every great oh yeah and you, just, you just went with it, and you know it's so hard to watch them be rejected oh, my god, yeah, oh my god, I was literally like holding my breath and he was asking them and I was like, oh, at the end they like left or whatever to get ice cream and they just ended up leaving. I was like, did you catch their names? He goes. No. I was like you know what? That's fine. You played with them. Like it doesn like of course they're gonna say yes if you're awesome, like hello, but like anytime you think, oh, someone didn't want to play. I think you know what bud, like it's okay, like I tried to like not say kids are shitty and they should play with you always, but that's not the case. It's like kids are mean, adults are mean, for whatever reason, and you will get left out sometimes and it's awful to watch.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, because you know how it feels and kids don't understand.

Speaker 4:

Yeah, to get through it. Yeah, yes, you know it hurts yeah.

Speaker 4:

And it, you know, it develops who you are, because you take, you know, these moments of hurt and you can, either, you know you can rise from it or you can, you know, fall, and you know he took that moment to to rise, you know, and just say, well, let me try it again the next day yeah, that's just, it's awesome to watch them, but it's also like you know how the world is and like you, just it's so cruel and even like other parents are cruel, and I'm like that's unnecessary, like for a kid.

Speaker 3:

And I always feel for the moms that are moms of kids who have disabilities, because it's like I can't even like imagine what they're going through, not because the kid has a disability, because like it doesn't matter, but it matters because people are so mean and they will take that and like, use it in a cruel way, and you know that and you know that, like, your kid may not understand why someone doesn't want to talk to them and it's just like, but he's great, who cares if he can't do xyz or he or she?

Speaker 3:

and it just breaks my like, absolutely breaks my mom heart. I swear to god, having kids literally broke me in half, like shattered my heart and like rebuilt it. But it's just like. It makes me so sad and I think I get. I get sad for, like, the kids because I'm like the world is so mean, like we unfortunately know what's going to happen, they're going to get made fun of. And for, like, there's no reason for them to get made fun of, obviously, but it's just what it is and it's horrific, it's awful yeah yeah, and it's like you, as a parent, know how amazing your kid is, whether they have a disability or not, who cares?

Speaker 3:

Like they're your kid, you love them no matter what. But then, like you, are sad because you know how mean everybody is.

Speaker 4:

Yeah, it's. It's funny you kind of bring that up because somebody asked me, so I had kids. I was almost 35 when I had Will, so in medical you know terminology.

Speaker 3:

Oh, you're a geriatric patient.

Speaker 4:

Yeah, so when I had I forget what it's called, the, I don't know the genetic testing done.

Speaker 3:

Yeah.

Speaker 4:

I had it done because you know there's a little bit more. It's a little more common for some genetic, you know things, abnormality, and I forget who. It was asked me like, well, why would you do that? Like, if you know, like, what are you going to do? And I was like what do you mean, what am I going to do? Like if you know, like, what are you going to do? And I was like what do you mean, what am I going to do? Like, I'm going to find out, and if there is a problem, like it's my child, I'm going to yeah, and if there's resources that I need, You're going to find them. That's the only reason why I would get it done is because I can prepare just a little bit. Yeah, I like that approach. Yeah, that's the only reason I'm like they're, they're my child, it doesn't matter no, like it doesn't matter of course you

Speaker 3:

want. You want and pray for healthy kids, obviously, but sometimes it doesn't work out like that and you deal with it and it's like. That's why I just like adore the parents who have children's disabilities, because it's like they are forever advocating for their kids, forever finding resources, and like they are the reason their kids are like like thriving, because it's like they're doing it for their kids. Yeah, like they're finding all the resources. Like your kids autistic, it's like there's so many resources. Or like, if they have like, a physical disability, it's like they wouldn't have known about any of these resources if they didn't have a child with a disability. And like that alone. Also, like you form amazing relationships to people who are in the same position as you.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, yeah, yeah it's like a different kind of trenches yeah, yeah, my nephew.

Speaker 4:

He has a very rare genetic disorder. Um like 100 people in the world have it and wow, um, it's very it. Basically his body can't process essential fats. So my sister, you know, she went on basically like this crusade to get him what he needed. She has fought insurance companies and she has friends from all over the world. Yeah, I love that. Yeah, and I love that together. I love that. We just found, like they found, light in a dark place. You know it's like motherhood is hard.

Speaker 4:

And then when you add other elements to that, yep, you feel so alone. And then when you have somebody who's like I know exactly what you're going through and it's like it's the best thing in the world yeah, and then also parents of kids that, like, spent time in the NICU after they were born.

Speaker 3:

That's like a whole nother community that can be formed. So it's like that's a whole nother on top of just having a kid. Now they're in the NICU for X amount of months for whatever reason, and it's like that's on top of all of that. It's like you have to deal with that and maybe lifelong things after that or maybe not, like no, but it's like you have a whole community of people who are like I know what you're going through.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 4:

Yeah. Very important, you don't have to say anything. It's like yeah. You know, you see somebody in the grocery store and their kid is having a meltdown and I look at them and I'm just like you're okay. Gonna pass Like like like my kids had one yesterday, like I know what. You're going to stand there and be like, oh my goodness, you need to control your child although before kids that was me and.

Speaker 3:

I'm ashamed to admit that, but like the older I get, the more I'm like it was okay, like you didn't have kids 20 you didn't know. Now I know and I'm like I can't believe I was ever like control your kid, because also, sometimes kids in the store when they're having tantrums are because of like, like a neurodiversion or like there's not something wrong with them, but like they have a disability. It's like sometimes, things that are out of their control. It's not because they can't get candy, it's because they maybe cannot control something. Yeah, and it's like the mom was she needed to go to the store, she needed to bring her kid. It's like she had you have to do what you have to do and she was like taking the risk, like in her mind, to like he might have a tantrum because he's overstimulated, or like it seems like a tantrum, but it's like we need to get food and you can't stay home by yourself and there's no one to watch you yeah I just feel like moms just take risks every day oh yeah, waking up sometimes is a risk

Speaker 2:

yeah, you don't know what. You don't know what the day is gonna bring.

Speaker 4:

Not at all not at all and I, there's a crap shoot every day. Oh, absolutely. But when you have people that you know, they just have this unspoken understanding of you know exactly what you're going through and it's so comforting because motherhood is very lonely. Yeah, it is, it's you know, especially like those first three months where it's oh and you're thrown into, like I mean talk about trial by fire thrown into, like I mean, talk about trial by fire.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, like no man, you will like take this kid home and keep him alive.

Speaker 2:

Okay, I'll try my best. No, it feels like a fever dream. It feels like like I don't know how we got through that kind of it's odd, because you're like how to get through?

Speaker 3:

but you're like I want to do it again. But I know like I got through it, but also like I'm done, but I just told my conversation, but also it's like, wow, it seems so long ago and it's like, especially for me, with those times I'm like this is never gonna end. I, I'm never going to be able to like not have to deal with this. But here we are and it's just it's like a testament to like what moms go through and what we like get through.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and definitely could not do it without our community. So grateful for that and grateful for I don't know, just friendship and adult time and and I like what you said earlier.

Speaker 3:

Sure, about normalizing things. Yeah, because I'm sure there's also other communities like that we don't know about, like for moms with children with disabilities. I'm sure they text each other at 2 am because of something and it's just like I love that there are those communities out there for that and even it even takes like one mom to like start it. Yeah, and I love that they have like those 2 am people who are like you know, he's overstimulated. To him it's just like same, like my kid too, like let's, we can do this together or whatever the reason might be, but like oh, he has another doctor's appointment tomorrow and it's like that's like a whole nother world. And I always feel for those moms.

Speaker 4:

I just want to hug them, yeah yeah, and it's like motherhood is hard enough, oh yeah absolutely, and you know, you don't know how hard it is until you do it, and it's not like a one and done. It's hard, it's every day there's something a little bit different.

Speaker 4:

But just having those, you know, having those relationships where you can just be completely honest and oh yeah, you know there there are some days, like especially in the beginning, where I'm just like I can't do this. Yeah, I just like I I don't know how I'm going to do this. Like I remember breastfeeding it was like oh Lord, so hard and it was such like just a kick in the pants, because I'm like, am I doing it right? He's this, that and the other thing. And I found out like he was tongue-tied so he couldn't match.

Speaker 3:

It wasn't even or his fault, it's like and you know you just everybody's like.

Speaker 4:

Oh, breastfeeding is so natural, it is when everything goes right yeah you know it's like here, fly this plane. You have never been to flight school.

Speaker 3:

Never.

Speaker 4:

At a manual.

Speaker 3:

But fly the plane. I've never taken a vehicle off the ground. Yeah, I don't think.

Speaker 2:

I could.

Speaker 3:

No, I think I could. I love this conversation. This is amazing. Yes, I feel like we should have like a part two down the line. There were so many things that I thought about, but we're moms and it's friday and it's late, so we're gonna have to white laws that need to be drank so and sleep. That need to be, that needs to be had I love this though.

Speaker 2:

Michelle please keep coming back. We love talking to you. Please keep having me back. I love talking to you, please keep having me back.

Speaker 4:

I love this.

Speaker 3:

Yes, and of course next summer in Jersey. We'll let you know, michelle. Yes, appreciate that. Thank you for fitting in. Feel free to call us out again, I don't mind.

Speaker 4:

Oh well. I will 100% continue to call you out on it.

Speaker 2:

Thank you, I'll never let it down.

Speaker 3:

Thanks, guys, guys for listening and like listening to school. And thanks for being on again, michelle. We love you.

Speaker 4:

Yes love you, guys, love you. And uh, yeah, I'm gonna go finish some ice cream. So, yes, enjoy it. Oh well, my kids are asleep, my husband's not home please, you gotta go girl amazing talk to you soon.

Speaker 2:

Like listen, subscribe and review bye ladies, bye all right everyone. This was another episode of turn the page podcast.

Speaker 1:

Thanks, for hanging out. Don't forget to like, listen and subscribe, and also don't forget to leave a review, please, and let us know what you thought about today's episode and all the other episodes. Thanks, guys, talk to you soon. Bye.

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Sheree Paige-Barber

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Tajuana Paige

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