74: Hoarding Secrets and a 6 P.M. Coffee (June Book Club discussion)

A house packed to the ceiling with stuff is one kind of mess. The secrets a family keeps can be even harder to clear out.

We’re Tajuana Paige and Sheree Paige Barber, and we’re back to our roots with a Turn the Page Book Club crossover that’s equal parts real life and real reads. Before we even get to the novel, we talk through the unfiltered motherhood moments that got us here: summer days with kids, the pool chaos, the snack drama, the exhaustion, and the tiny window of quiet that makes a virtual book club feel like self-care. If you’ve been looking for a book club for busy moms, a virtual reading community, or a podcast that feels like chatting with close friends, you’ll feel at home with us.

Then we dig into our June pick, The House We Grew Up In by Lisa Jewell. We unpack the hoarding storyline and how it reads like a family drama with subtle psychological suspense, from the sensory writing to the control and avoidance underneath the clutter. We also talk intergenerational trauma, sibling dynamics, enabling, and the shocking relationship twists that ripple through the entire family system.

We close with how we each respond to trauma on the page, why some readers need lighter books in hard seasons, and what we’re reading next: The Things We Leave Unfinished by Rebecca Yarros. 

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Transcript

Welcome To Turn The Page

SPEAKER_01 0:04

Welcome to Turn the Page Podcast, sisters, best friends, and friends enthusiasts.

SPEAKER_00 0:10

With relatable episodes that feel like you're chatting with two of your closest friends or sisters. Join us as we turn the page to different topics about losing yourself, motherhood, adulthood, or anyhood.

SPEAKER_01 0:22

And finding yourself again through meaningful friendships, endless piles of unread library books, and endless Amazon package deliveries. Real, honest, and a little bit proud as we talk about it all.

SPEAKER_00 0:34

So grab your favorite drink, put the kids to bed, lace up your suits or whatever you need to do and join us. We can't wait to connect with you.

SPEAKER_02 0:44

Hi guys, welcome to Turn the Page Podcast. This is co-host Tawana Page.

SPEAKER_01 0:50

This is your other co-host, Sheree Page Barber.

SPEAKER_02 0:54

And guys, we're back. Just the two of us. Like it was from the beginning. We're going back to our root.

SPEAKER_01 1:04

Yeah,

Why We Run Book Club Virtual

SPEAKER_01 1:05

it's been a minute. We're doing a special Turn the Page Book Club podcast crossover episode today. Yeah. I have a feeling summer attendance is gonna be light. So this is like a nice way to kind of get an idea of what it's like. So if you have been toying with the idea of joining a book club, joining our book club, maybe this will give you some good insight.

SPEAKER_02 1:39

Hopefully. And guys, we keep it virtual now just because the seasons of our life that we're in. But don't you worry. We've been toying with possible in-person book clubs in the future, but we'll definitely keep you posted. We're always throwing ideas back and forth with each other and on chatty, which is what we call chat GBT. But a lot of stuff is now just in like imagination phase just because of the seasons we're in, but don't you worry, we'll make it happen if it if we feel that it's worth it.

SPEAKER_01 2:18

Yeah. For now though, it's virtual, it's low-key, it's hopefully after bedtime, so you can have some time to yourself and join and just chat. You also don't have to have finished the book to join. You can just join for the vibes in the community conversation.

Pool Day Chaos And Mom Energy

SPEAKER_01 2:40

What vibes are you bringing to the function this evening? Do you have a libation or a beverage?

SPEAKER_02 2:47

I just had a straight black cup of coffee at 6 p.m. Because yes, because today was spent outside with four children, three of which are walking upright and speaking in the water, in the sun. And mama was tired. I was like, if I need to I need to make this book club, so I poured some straight black coffee at 6 p.m. guys. Um my vibe is I'm excited because I'm curious how this is going to go, and I hope that we like it, and then it becomes like a normal segment of the podcast if attendance is low. Because I mean, even if attendance is low, we still do the foot club because we are just the two types of women, two women that just show up regardless. So sometimes it is just us, and we are just having fun with it. So my vibe is curiosity and excitement.

SPEAKER_01 3:52

Yeah, I like that. I think I'm on the same page. I had another truly after you guys left, because I yeah, today was a long day. It was like getting up early and like we had ballet, then we went for a walk, and like setting up the pool, and like a lot of energy goes into making their childhood special.

SPEAKER_02 4:19

So it does, it does. I feel like in ten years we'll be like, okay, it was worth it. But today, just so many emotions.

SPEAKER_01 4:30

It was worth it to like hit the slump like three, where I just like crashed, but I took the baby inside because he was sweating, so it's like now's my chance to Oh, he was sweating, yeah. Like his back was wet, so it's like, let me take him inside and feed him. And I Sage was laying down, so it's like, okay, this will just be our quiet time, and then she started bouncing off the walls again. So it's like I would have been okay if I was able to fully recharge after that.

SPEAKER_02 4:58

Oh, I was gonna ask you when you hit the slump when your daughter was trying to get inside when you were trying to eat your pizza, or when my child was trying to get the last slice of pizza in the wing. My oldest. My youngest was trying not to drop his plate. So I was wondering if those were a few of the moments you had to flop.

SPEAKER_01 5:23

No, I don't think I hit it that early. I think it was the painting.

SPEAKER_02 5:26

The painting really took me over the edge because they were that's probably the most calm they were all day when they were painting.

SPEAKER_01 5:35

I know, but then it was just like I was not they were letting papers fly off the deck and into the pool and like spilling the cups of water. Like their art table is like paint streaked from the water that spilled. Then at the end, RJ was rubbing the wet water all over, like mixing the colors all together, and he said, I'm making them all dark. I was like, they're all gonna be one color, like you're never gonna be able to paint in here again.

SPEAKER_02 6:00

And that point, one point where I was laying on the deck trying to get a suntan because the bench was uncomfortable. I looked up. Oh, perfect. I look up, and your daughter is playing in the water that was spilled on the table. So annoying. And you were like, What are you doing? And I was like, Yeah, no, it just was I was like, it's really funny that you're playing in the water, but when you were in the water, you were asking both of us why you were wet.

SPEAKER_01 6:27

It was honestly fine. Like the pool was fine, but then it was like after the food, but they just slowly started losing a marble at a time. Like they just this is why we can't have nice things.

SPEAKER_02 6:41

This is what and then your daughter started like rage baiting her cousin by like literally knocking all the toys off the side of the pool, and he just about had an absolute fit. She lost his mind.

SPEAKER_01 6:54

She was not rage baiting, she was singing the there were ten in the bed like each time. She's such a tough, and she was knocking it in. I just heard her saying, yeah, she did say that. That's her mantra right now.

SPEAKER_02 7:11

Yeah, no, she is singing.

SPEAKER_01 7:13

Yes, she was like, Why are you upset? Like, we thought we were singing together. So we're working on boundaries, it's fine.

SPEAKER_02 7:21

Oh my gosh. And then I had to cut it. Well, I said we're leaving at 4 30. I'd be left at 4 15 because they were literally like fighting over a balloon. I was like, please, my fear was just like the string was gonna go around their neck. I was like, oh my god, just put the balloon down.

SPEAKER_01 7:37

I at that point just like disassociated and was like in my own little world holding.

SPEAKER_02 7:45

And then Audrey kept trying to hold him, which is fine. Yeah. And then I'm like, oh my gosh. And then you missed it outside. Your daughter came outside, grabs one of her cousin's bowl of chips, looks at me and goes, Chip, and takes one. And Harry's like, RJ, Sage is eating your chip.

SPEAKER_01 8:06

I saw RJ walk across the deck with his bowl in hand. It's like she must have tried to dip into the chips. She didn't ask me for any, but I said, Go ask your mama.

SPEAKER_02 8:17

She's like, Chip.

SPEAKER_01 8:20

Absolute chaos. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 8:23

So funny.

SPEAKER_01 8:27

So yeah, now this is our time. With I'm sorry, one more story. Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_02 8:33

It was so funny. Um, my youngest was sitting in the big chair as he calls it, hiding from everybody. And then when he realized his brother was in the chair that he used to sit in, got up and literally was like fighting him to sit in a chair that he hadn't sat in in an hour.

SPEAKER_01 8:51

Oh, he was like trying to like backwards yoke him up. Like he was behind him, like pulling his collar off the shirt and like slapping him on the head.

SPEAKER_02 9:00

I was and the oldest was I got here first. You did it. You started off in the bigger chair. The other bigger chair. And then told them about your daughter being cold but continuously walking past her towel.

SPEAKER_01 9:16

Oh yeah, she didn't want her towel because it was dirty. Because she dropped it on the ground and refused to pick it up. So she just kept walking past it, over it, across it, looking for her towel.

SPEAKER_02 9:30

They're just then she literally kept walking between us when there was no room, trying to like suffocate, kiss her brother. He's like trying to figure out what's going on. They're all in his face, touching him in his face.

SPEAKER_01 9:43

Yeah. You see brother's eye. That's all she says. You see brother's toes. Like, yeah, I see. They're asleep, thank God. So yeah. May's

June Pick And Quick Recap

SPEAKER_01 10:03

book.

SPEAKER_02 10:05

No, June's book.

SPEAKER_01 10:06

Sorry. June's book.

SPEAKER_02 10:09

It's been a minute.

SPEAKER_01 10:11

Yeah. What was May's book? June's book, The House We Grew Up In by Lisa Jewel.

SPEAKER_02 10:18

Maybe Jar of Heart.

SPEAKER_01 10:21

Right. That was a good one. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 10:24

Yeah, that's one.

SPEAKER_01 10:26

I just always say Jewel because there's two L's, but I could definitely.

SPEAKER_02 10:30

Kind of like Jewel, but yeah, but two L's.

SPEAKER_01 10:33

Yeah, well. Lisa Jewel. Yeah, okay. So let me see. Because I was jotting down some thoughts to see.

SPEAKER_02 10:44

Because Lisa did it again.

SPEAKER_01 10:46

Huh? Lisa did it again. Oh yeah. So normally though, I feel like she's like psychological thriller vibes. That was a psychological thriller. Was it? It was not a thriller. It was like a family drama.

SPEAKER_02 11:04

But it was like a subtle psychological thriller. And they had a lot of drama, but it was like weird trauma.

SPEAKER_01 11:12

Yeah, so a lot of like family dynamics, sibling relationships, like possible incest. Yeah, hoarding, infidelity.

SPEAKER_02 11:24

She focused a lot. The whole theme of the book was hoarding, in my opinion. But then there were like little children, not children, but like the parent theme with hoarding and like little themes underneath it. Like with the brother that passed. Her ex-husband who lived next door, and then her other neighbor on the other side who became her live-in partner, and she became a lesbian at that point.

SPEAKER_01 11:52

Trying to remember everyone's names. Reese is the brother that died, Colin's the husband. Yes, the ex-husband. Or Val, yeah, is the neighbor. Yeah, Vic, something with a V. Okay. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:04

Because she Vic also had Vicky also had how many kids? Two two girls. Two girls. Okay. Did we hear about her husband or her part?

SPEAKER_01 12:16

I feel like there might have been a mention of like alluding to custody, like them splitting time.

SPEAKER_02 12:24

Obviously, some form of a man involved because she has two children. Whether it was like an actual present man or like Yeah, we just don't know where he went.

SPEAKER_01 12:33

I feel like he's still there and like they would go with him like week on something. Because I feel like there were times where the girls weren't with her. Like when she moved in with what's her face?

SPEAKER_02 12:45

I thought maybe they were just because they were of school age.

SPEAKER_01 12:48

Oh.

SPEAKER_02 12:49

Were they?

SPEAKER_01 12:51

Yeah. Like high school.

SPEAKER_02 12:53

Yes, I thought maybe they were at school or something in some parts of the book. Because I remember one of her daughters expressing how she like didn't want to live with What's the woman's name?

SPEAKER_03 13:09

Okay. Sorry guys.

SPEAKER_02 13:12

We finished the book like two weeks ago.

SPEAKER_01 13:14

No, also, this is real. This is 8 45 p.m. Mom Brain. I can't remember the main character's name. What is the main name?

SPEAKER_02 13:22

The main character's name. She was the hoarder.

SPEAKER_01 13:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:25

One of Vic Vicky's daughters expressed how she had concerns about like the way that she was treated by her. Yeah. Her sister. What the way she treated her sister.

SPEAKER_01 13:38

Yeah, like so. What is she wow, guys?

SPEAKER_02 13:40

You're really she called her she called her like a little shit or something.

SPEAKER_01 13:44

That's what I was gonna say, or she was saying like yeah, I think she called her a little shit and then like tried to brush it off.

SPEAKER_02 13:52

She expressed how like the living conditions at home weren't the best because she was starting to see how the hoarding was affecting

Hoarding And Control In The Home

SPEAKER_02 14:00

everything.

SPEAKER_01 14:01

Yeah, so I in the past would watch hoarders like sporadically, and it this is no shade or shame to like the condition or people who deal, but like it would make me so uncomfortable to watch it because and even the way that the author described it, like it just looked like you were watching them like being closed in on themselves, and it made me feel so claustrophobic. And the way that she explained it, like the writing was really good. I remember mentioning, like, I'm very I don't know, visual, like she described the smell, and I felt like I could smell it.

SPEAKER_02 14:46

Oh yeah. So I'm not that I'm not that type of learner. I mean, I can remember smells from like, you know, like they say like smell is linked to memory or something, or like if you hear music, a song, or like you remember a smell. Like I have like I think a lot of us have that, like it taps in there, but I couldn't like smell it when she was describing it. I just pictured her like in her what used to be her room, just like being surrounded by like everything, and people just like at the door trying to like look past everything to see where she was.

SPEAKER_01 15:25

Yeah, she let they said at one point that she had like a chair, like everything else was occupied and like overflowing, and she just had like this chair that was her only space in the house. And I think the discomfort for me is like just how unfortunate it is that like and how out of control it must feel.

SPEAKER_02 15:49

Feel, yeah. She was saving like teabags and newspapers, and like I feel like the newspapers that was like the end, because the oldest daughter, I think it was Martha, was like, yo, mom has a problem. Like she started saving newspapers, yeah. Everybody was like, Oh, okay, but like, no, they attract roaches, and that's like why it's like it eventually over time becomes like damp paper.

SPEAKER_01 16:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 16:22

It's just like, yeah, what with the tea bags? Was she were they used teabags?

SPEAKER_01 16:27

I think so.

SPEAKER_02 16:30

What and we also never got well, I think you said it. We talked about this a little bit offline. I was like, she never got to the root of why she was a hoarder.

SPEAKER_01 16:39

I but I feel like they did, and that's what I was gonna say earlier when you were mentioning like the parent theme. I almost feel like the like the actual parent theme or like the grandparent theme is like intergenerational trauma because the story showed like how it can be passed down but in different ways.

SPEAKER_02 16:59

And so I feel like she had how it shows up how trauma shows up differently. Yeah, she had this issue, it felt like with control, okay and just like like being out of control or wanting to be in control.

SPEAKER_01 17:14

Both, both, okay, and then she linked it back to a sexual assault, I think. Was it like her uncle or something?

SPEAKER_02 17:22

That there was some kind of incest, and I wasn't sure if it was her or somebody in her family. I just remember she said like they didn't talk about it.

SPEAKER_01 17:31

Yeah, and maybe it was her brother and it was the kid's uncle because then that also led to Reese. Yeah, Reese, he had an incestuous incestual act towards her before he comp trigger warnings all around before he completed suicide. So yeah, it just yeah, I thought it showed like the trickle down of all of that, really, and then it showed like how the different siblings were all affected by the mom's condition, too.

SPEAKER_02 18:07

Yes, so okay, so a few points here. The first being, I forgot what the first one was gonna be. Okay, the second, anytime the kids were like moving out or like trying to live their life like outside of the home, she would be like, but why wouldn't you want to come back here when you return from your trip? Like, yeah, you guys had the best childhood, didn't you? Like, it was so much fun. I gave you the world, and it's like, no. Oh, that was my other thing. Did she have a job? Did she have like active money coming in? Because she would still buy things.

SPEAKER_01 18:43

Why do I feel like I remember Colin saying something about giving her like an allowance or something? Because yes, she would buy things, she would like go to a flea market or something and see something that she like felt like she needed, but I feel like at one point she wasn't able to continue doing that, like because she didn't have money coming in.

SPEAKER_02 19:05

So that's concerning that Colin was giving her an allowance, so he was an enabler.

SPEAKER_01 19:15

Yeah, I was gonna say that too. Martha had been saying that like before the end, like she had been calling it out.

SPEAKER_02 19:21

She called it out, and then the newspapers was the final straw for her. She was like, Mom needs help.

SPEAKER_01 19:26

Yeah. I don't know if Colin gave her, I don't know why that just like came up in my brain. I don't know if that's true or not.

SPEAKER_02 19:35

And then I knew this was gonna like tip the scales. I I don't know if she was away or out shopping, but Vicky like gave away some of her stuff.

SPEAKER_01 19:45

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 19:46

Some of the stuff that was still like salvageable.

SPEAKER_01 19:49

Well, because yeah, they had talked about trying to like clear stuff out.

SPEAKER_02 19:53

Yeah, and she uh lost her mind when she couldn't find it. So the interesting thing about her as a hoarder is that she, although the house was like literally stacked to the ceiling with stuff, she knew exactly where everything was.

SPEAKER_01 20:06

Yeah, that's why I think it's like it was like a control thing.

SPEAKER_02 20:10

Yeah, true. Because like she would notice things were missing when there was like space that wasn't there before. And that's how I think she knew that some of her stuff was missing, and then she thought she did it.

SPEAKER_01 20:22

Yeah. It was interesting, and the different like relationship dynamics that they all had. Like one was married, but yes, he was.

SPEAKER_02 20:35

Oh, that's the that's a whole a whole nother theme. He was the oldest.

SPEAKER_01 20:40

Wait, hold on, because I'm gonna I'm gonna come back to that one because it's like yeah. The she the oldest was married, the one like the youngest still lived at home and was like just she could not, she was like sucked in. Bethel. The youngest.

SPEAKER_02 20:54

Oh, was she the baby baby of the family?

SPEAKER_01 20:56

I thought Reese was sorry, the youngest girl, my bad. Okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 20:59

She was the second born, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:01

Yeah, and then the one brother that was still living, the twin, he like had a commitment issue, like had a full kid, and like just left when she was four to go.

SPEAKER_02 21:14

No, I think she was like I think she was a month.

SPEAKER_01 21:17

Oh, right. She was like the present time in the story she was four, yeah. So they all had very different relationships too. But yes, talk about the sister and so the oldest was married.

The Affair That Warps Everything

SPEAKER_02 21:30

He seemed like she and she had her own kids, like she had four as well.

SPEAKER_01 21:36

Four, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 21:36

They seemed like they lived like from the outset before you dove in, like a normal married life with kids, like doing everything, and like husband would take some kids to this event, and the mom would take like it just seems normal. And then it started like coming through the pages or the cracks, shall we say, that he was having an affair, but who he was having an affair with. was his wife's sister.

SPEAKER_01 22:02

Yeah, for like four years.

SPEAKER_02 22:04

Beth and like for a very long time. Yeah. And it would just like randomly come out. Like the hugs would be way too long and way too intimate. It didn't come out after the fact until Martha discovered the text messages that they were actually texting that much.

SPEAKER_01 22:20

Yeah. Like calling.

SPEAKER_02 22:23

All of it was just so strange. They never once talked about how they were gonna like be together because it was never like it was just understood that they continue to do this. Yeah. And then Vicky found out because they were like about to make out in the garden.

SPEAKER_01 22:42

Oh my god. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:45

And how couldn't like any normal alert adult would know that something was going on?

SPEAKER_01 22:52

Yeah I think she knew but like she didn't know what exactly I think she knew something was off.

SPEAKER_02 22:58

And then I think she eventually told her didn't Rory's at that point it wasn't his baby mom but soon to be baby mom.

SPEAKER_01 23:06

Didn't she see them too it came out at the end that she was also outside that time yeah and you know what's so interesting the way that she was written was like almost like she was the villain or like she was just this like outsider who had like big unwarranted opinions about the but she was truly like she like observed she peeped everything.

SPEAKER_02 23:29

It was the way the main it was the way Lisa wrote the main character describing her. Yeah she was like oh you just let her take over your mind like she doesn't know what she's talking about. She took you away from the family and I don't think it's classic like mom not liking like you know son girlfriend or whatever choice of girlfriend. Yeah but then I don't think Vicky had a problem with her I just think she like knew Lorelai no was that her name yeah yeah Lorelai yeah and then she would call her Laura Laura yeah I she knew that she had a problem with her yeah but like Vicky was always very respectful to her yes she was very interesting. The whole thing was interesting because that affair went on for a very long time and I don't even know how they were able to keep it going for four years. Like because it's not like Martha traveled a lot. Did he travel a lot? I don't remember yeah I don't know how they kept it going and it was very like sexual for those four years.

SPEAKER_01 24:34

Yeah because she was Beth and was kind of like a lost soul I would say yeah didn't she eventually find meet somebody and she had a she had like a hookup or like a one night stand and she got pregnant so at the end she was oh that was she had her baby and I thought she had like a standing partner. Maybe then it was sorry I'm like recalling showing correctly but maybe it was just like it was like a short relationship.

SPEAKER_02 25:04

They weren't together when she had the baby it wasn't like like she was a s like a single mom yes but I also remember her having a partner at some point for like a short period of time. That's like why she moved to Australia something yeah yeah and then they broke up they like moved in together they like went on dates and I guess they eventually broke up yeah yes and do you want do you want to take the part about Rory and then their dad oh and his baby mom.

Rory Colin And Spain Fallout

SPEAKER_01 25:44

Yeah Rory after he left his baby mom and daughter was in Thailand working at I guess it was a strip club right or a restaurant but it was like a front for yeah so background to that he had moved to as he was traveling to Spain or no he met this girl they moved to Spain she m she moved them to on a compound in Spain and the owner of the compound was the guy that lost her virginity I forgot about that detail.

SPEAKER_02 26:17

Back in the day and then they got she got her and Rory got pregnant Rory was like I don't want to do this anymore left when the baby was eight months somehow made it to Thailand yeah and I believe that like the restaurant was a front for like prostitution and drugs.

SPEAKER_01 26:35

No it definitely was because the cops came to bust them and the owner was like it's him he's the guy so he got arrested and he was in jail in Thailand. Yeah yeah the guy that he was running for basically like why don't you dive into that and how their dad Colin gets into the picture well so he went to jail but before he went to jail Colin came to visit Rory in Thailand and was like expressing concern with his choices about like leaving his family and then all of a sudden he just fell in love with his son's ex-girlfriend and was now and baby mom. Yes and was now his also his granddaughter's like essentially stepdad like he just happy all around just a very like that part struck me as the most just I don't know uncomfortable. Yeah because then he was like trying to defend it and he like sent them all a mass email just about like apologizing for how it came out and things but like I'm still gonna pursue this and then he fully moved to Spain and which is yeah maybe when he moved to Spain he stopped giving her the allowance I don't know at some point she got cut off financially and maybe that's how that tied in Lorelei maybe so yeah she was living with he was living with her then didn't they come back for something I guess Lorelei's funeral funeral yeah because like together he was in yeah so weird because it it was just weird because Rory was obviously like his mother so we have like your ex your baby mom who's now dating your dad didn't did some things come out at the funeral or am I thinking of a different book oh it did didn't Bethan tell Martha that she was having an affair with Bill at the funeral? Did they ever I No she found out I know she found out but did she she found out it was her?

SPEAKER_02 28:56

I knew she found out that he had an affair but she knew it was her she didn't know with who and then she found the text messages and so sad she thought it was because they were planning her birthday.

SPEAKER_01 29:05

A surprise yeah but didn't Beth and run into the woods at some point like she like ran away because she they were like yelling at each other I guess it would have been at the funeral or like the Easter Easter dinner one of them yeah yeah yeah and then yeah Vic Vic passed away too and that was that came out of nowhere that can again Lisa Jewell just like throws things on you're like wait

The Pen Pal Twist And Grief

SPEAKER_01 29:43

what? Yeah well I guess she had to bridge the gap too because then Lorel I had a pen pal which I think we both at some point thought was I thought he was in hallucin hallucination or like a prison pen pal.

SPEAKER_02 29:56

We were all guys we were texting each other being like watch Jim be like this made up person yeah who she is made up in her mind and she's just because it was an email pen pal and we were like watch it just be her writing back and forth to herself yeah because she would you would only hear her email responses at the beginning of the chapter you wouldn't hear what he wrote back but she would be responding to what he and it was responding as if like she was making up his email. Yeah it was she'd be like I'm so tired hearing about your son and like oh yes but then also she was sharing like very personal stuff with him. Yeah like that's how we found out a lot of things that didn't come out outside of the pen pal relationship and I was like well obvious other than him saying that he was real like that's for the longest time I thought this man was fake.

SPEAKER_01 30:50

Yeah and then the emails came out because they were going through her computer after she died and it turned out that the guy was real and he disappeared for a bit towards the end and she thought that he was like ghosting her but he I think relapsed or went back to jail for a few days or something he actually was on drugs and I thought that was interesting but and then he like came and met her kids and everything yes because who let who alerted him that she had passed was it Bethan was that is that her name or is it Bethel I went she she kept calling her Bethan maybe Elizabeth I guess she has temp was it Bethany she kept calling her Beth and that was like her nickname oh my little Bethan yeah so I don't know maybe she it was either her or Martha obviously her siblings would call her Beth yeah yeah very complex very layered it was just like I mean like we've both read like books that have like your normal trauma in it but this was like a different layer a different flavor of trauma I liked that it didn't go too deep into it though like it didn't feel too much for me personally to read they just kind of like alluded to things and touched on things they didn't go into detail the way like Jarve Hearts Jennifer Hillier the way she writes like she goes into so much detail or what's her face Karen Slaughter I like that it just was which I love on the surface I like both of those things

Reading Trauma Comfort Levels

SPEAKER_01 32:40

we have to do a Karen Slaughter one because if you read Pretty Girls that was very trauma heavy yeah the good daughter too like the way that she writes is so descriptive I remember it was like the bones cracked and I'm like oh my gosh girl because because I'm so I don't know the only word is like experiential like I can visualize things very intensely when I read them and I remember an old supervisor mentioned that to me as uh a potential I guess like barrier to the work that I do because she was like you're a big reader right as again she's like okay so you have like a very vivid imagination like I picture things yeah when they're being described and yeah so sometimes when it's like very detailed with trauma it's like a lot for me to get through. So I like that this wasn't that bad.

SPEAKER_02 33:43

We both react to like reading about trauma very differently it's like not well not that I want more more of it but like I'm so fascinated by it and I think that's like we've tried to like chatty diagnose ourselves. I think that's the Libra in me. It's like I like both like the light and dark side of things and I almost think that you can't appreciate the light without going through the dark but like I like to see that in other people too not because it like excites me but I just think it's so fascinating yeah I think I just get enough of it in my everyday life that like in my downtime I don't need more of it. So I get it yeah that's why I'm always so deep into it that's why I'm like hey I need some romance books and you always have them like on standby.

SPEAKER_01 34:41

Well because I'm a mood reader and so I go through like chunks of times where I'll read three or four books of one genre and then get sick of it and switch to another one. So I'm in my lover girl I mean yeah I'm in my lover girl era right now with the rom-coms but I think what's our next one I guess our next one is oh is that like a family drama things left unfinished yeah and I think it is another like family coming together because of something big happening right I think it's not any more like hidden like so I like trauma where it's like in your face like you know about it.

SPEAKER_02 35:25

This one was kind of hidden so it kind of was like that's why I said it was like a different flavor

July Pick Poll And Sign Off

SPEAKER_02 35:30

because the trauma that was hidden was like not expected.

SPEAKER_01 35:33

Yeah well our our July pick the poll closed the other day in Fable if you're not in there get in there so you can contribute to future months but it's the things we leave unfinished by Rebecca Yarros or Yaros I honestly with the book club picks like this I probably won't even read the description I'll just jump into it but the genres say romance historical members that are like I don't know I don't read the description they're like you recommend it and I just read it I'm like okay yeah I that's how I pick books by reading the description I sometimes I do sometimes honestly I just go by the cover and like the reviews so yeah and then all right everyone this was another episode of Turn the Page Podcast thanks for hanging out don't forget to like listen and subscribe and also don't forget to leave a review please and let us know what you thought about today's episode and all the other episodes thanks guys talk to you soon bye